Mark and Juno are Riding from Edinburgh to Athens

Host Tom Butler shares a rundown of where Cycling Over Sixty stands today and how much the show has grown since its beginnings. As part of that update, Tom introduces the Cycling for Active Aging Network, a Pierce County partnership designed to reach adults over 55 who are physically inactive by adapting existing cycling programs to be more welcoming to older adults who are sedentary and maybe have never thought of themselves as cyclists.

Then Tom has a conversation with Mark Altman, a military veteran preparing to ride 3,000 miles from Edinburgh to Athens on a recumbent bike with his service dog Juno along for the journey. Mark is using the ride to raise money for the Wounded Warrior Project through a Virtual Soldier Ride. It's a conversation about what long days in the saddle can do for a person, and about why, at 61, Mark is choosing to take on something this big.

Link to Juno's Odyssey Facebook: facebook.com/search/top?q=juno%27s%20odyssey

Become a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club!  www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty

Cycling Over Sixty is also on Zwift.  Look for our Zwift club!

NOTE: I share information about my journey. From time to time that means sharing what I do to stay healthy.  None of what I share is meant to be medical advice. Always consult with your physician or other health professionals before making changes. 

Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at info@cyclingoversixty.com

Follow and comment on Cycling Over Sixty on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cyclingoversixty/

Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz.  Find him here : lebomusic.com

Transcript

Where Cycling Over 60 Is Going

Tom Butler 0:04

This is the Cycling Over60 podcast, season 4, episode 14. Mark and Juno are riding from Edinburgh to Athens. And I'm your host, Tom Butler. I want to start this episode with where Cycling Over 60 is now, because it's changed a lot from where it started. When I started Cycling Over 60, I didn't have a strategy. Not really. It was conversations I was having with people and a sense that those conversations mattered, and that was about it. That has changed significantly. Cycling over 60 is a full-time effort for me now. It's how I see myself being able to impact the lives of as many people as possible. And the more I've worked on it, the more I've realized that the podcast and the content are only a part of what this needs to be. To me, a bigger part is the local community. My goal now is to keep improving cycling over 60 until it becomes a significant resource for anybody wanting to start getting fit later in life, and for people who are already riding and want to stay writing as long as possible. Both groups. I don't want to leave either out. And I've come to believe that figuring out how to build local community that supports a cycling over 60 focus is crucial. Information isn't enough on its own. Some of what makes cycling special only happens with other riders. Someone telling you about a route they just rode. Covenant advice from a rider who's maybe made a mistake and is helping you not make the same mistake. The accountability of knowing people are waiting for you on a Thursday morning. To me, that's a more full cycling experience. And helping figure out the future of cycling communities that support older riders is where I want to put my energy. What I keep coming back to is that a local bike club sets at the heart of that, which is why I took on the role of community and government relations director for the Tacopa Washington Bicycle Club. I'm looking for ways to make our club the best support it can be for older riders. But here's the thing: a local bike club that's just people over 60 isn't really a healthy club. I don't think that's the right model. I think bike clubs need to play a crucial role in the health of a local community. Full stop. To be healthy, a club needs to meet the needs of cyclists in every age group. That's a focus I have with my work with TWBC. I'm interested in how the club is seen as a component of how a community stays active. Not just a club for cyclists, but a piece of the civic infrastructure of an active community. I hope we can figure that out here with the Coma Washington Bicycle Club, and I hope to share with you what that looks like as we do. So that's the broader picture. A healthy club serving every age group embedded in the community.

CAAN And Removing Barriers To Ride

Tom Butler 2:49

Inside that broader picture, there's a specific group I want the club to serve. And that's people who are 55 and older and are inactive. Serving them well takes more than what a bike club can do alone. So I put together a concept. The idea is that a network of local organizations is needed to remove the barriers to being active by bike. And here's an update on where that effort stands. The network has a name. It's called CAN, the Cycling for Active Aging Network. It's a Pierce County partnership between TWBC, Second Cycle, and Forevergreen Trails. I've been focused since the first of the year on finding grant sources to turn CAN from an idea into a well-funded program. We aren't there yet, but I'm excited about the progress. Here's the problem CAN is built to address. One in four adults over fifty-five is physically inactive. In Pierce County, that's roughly 60,000 people. And physical inactivity is a leading driver of a lot of disease states, including cognitive decline. CAN is being built to change that, one ride at a time. CAN benefits from existing programs of these three established organizations. We want to reach people who are sedentary and who have never felt that cycling is for them. CAN hasn't been built from scratch. It adapts current programs and shapes it around the needs of an older, often inexperienced rider. Our immediate goal is to engage 200 participants, large enough to gather real success stories, and then use those success stories to generate referrals and grow from there. And while CAN is currently housed TWBC, it's designed to be replicated. The model could work in any community with a bike club, a community bike hub like Second Cycle, and a trail organization willing to partner up. In my role as Community and Government Relations Director at TWBC, I'll be administering CAN. Cycling over 60 is contributing in a different way, helping develop the referral recruitment material, which means reaching out to healthcare organizations, and recruiting volunteers for the program. I will be sharing more about it in future episodes. I'll be talking about how it's going and what we're learning, where it's working, and where it isn't. And I'd love to hear from you. If you're in Pierce County and this sounds like something you or someone you know could use, get in touch. If you're somewhere else and you're thinking about whether a model like this could work in your community, I want to hear from you too. As always, you can find my email in the show notes.

Meet Mark And Juno’s Odyssey

Tom Butler 5:31

I can't get enough of stories about long bike journeys, so when I learned about Mark Altman, I was really glad to be able to talk with him. Mark is about to ride a recumbent bike 3,000 miles from Edinburgh, Scotland, to Athens, Greece, four months on the road across multiple countries, with his service dog Juno riding along. The whole project is called Juno's Odyssey. Mark is a military veteran and he's using this ride to raise money for the Wounded Warrior Project through a virtual soldier ride. So this is part adventure, part fundraiser, and part something deeper. Here's one of the reasons I wanted Mark on the show. One of the questions we keep coming back to is what gets people active and what keeps them active, especially as they get older. Here's my conversation with Mark.

Childhood Bikes And Epic Family Tours

Tom Butler 6:22

Thank you, Mark Altman, for joining me today.

Mark Altman 6:25

Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Thank you very much.

Tom Butler 6:27

Yeah. I'm gonna get to your story, but first I want to ask you talk about your fondest memory of the bicycle.

Mark Altman 6:36

Yeah, so it was funny when you asked that or when I got that question, I was laughing about the answer because when I was a kid, I was raised in cut and shoot Texas, which is spelled just like you think. Cut you like with a knife, shoot you with a gun, Texas. Probably not a more Texas name than that. And we would, you know, we all had bikes, right? And we rode around, we didn't have a neighborhood, but we rode on country roads, gravel roads, and all that. That when that got boring, we would set up ramps and jump over the ramps. Well, eventually that got boring. And so, because evil can evil was a thing back when I was a kid, probably you two, we would have all our siblings would lay down behind the ramp and we would jump each other, basically. And so that was actually something that was a really fond memory growing up, you know, was jumping each other. But I have to say that my favorite memory is when my oldest son was 10 and a half, he and I rode mountain bikes from Rome, Italy, to Edinburgh, Scotland. It was 3,000 miles by mountain bike. We went through Ireland along the way. It was three months long. It was an amazing journey, and there were so many amazing things that happened on that trip. I can't even begin to name them all. We could be here till next Friday if I were to begin naming them all. But then four years later, my ex-wife, Dawn, and I, and all four kids rode from Cape Lookout State Park in Oregon to Washington, D.C. And on that trip, all of us were on what used to be Wizwheel trikes, and of course, now is TerraTrike and Greenspeed. And so we were each on our own trike. We were the, as far as I could ever find, we were the first family where everyone was on their own bike or trike, and we rode across the U.S. all in one go. So, and as far as I know, I mean, we may still be the only one. I I looked the other day trying to kind of find somebody else that had done something like that, and I haven't really found anybody. There have been other families who have done some really cool stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong, but I think we're about the only ones, and again, an amazing trip with the kids, you know, just and they're all adults now and they all have their own children and all of that. So I think those things were probably my fondest memories, you know, on a bike. It was just, and of course, obviously I'm hooked. I'm I'm doing another big trip, so it was pretty wild.

Tom Butler 9:35

I could spend you know an episode talking about those two trips, but let's get into this trip. Give me or give listeners an overview of what you have planned.

Mark Altman 9:46

Yes,

Edinburgh To Athens And Why

Mark Altman 9:47

so my service dog, Juno, who is a hundred and thirty-two-pound African Borble. So she's in the Mastiff family, so big big girl. We are going to ride from Edinburgh, Scotland. So we're kind of turning things around, we're going from Edinburgh through Eastern Europe and then down to Athens, Greece, is the plan. And so I really was looking for another big adventure. It had been too long since I had done one. And between seeing all of the various stories out there of how many veterans commit suicide, to how difficult it can be for veterans to reassimilate into the civilian job market and into civilian life. And then knowing what Juno brings to my life as a service dog and helping me through my own PTSD and all of that, I thought it would be really cool to partner with Wounded Warrior or to be in association with Wounded Warrior and do something to highlight veterans' struggles in those areas. And I thought it would be pretty cool that if I reached out to the veterans in the countries that sent troops with us to Iraq and Afghanistan and get some of their veterans to ride part of the trip along with us. So some veterans may only ride a couple of miles, and then other veterans may ride a hundred or more miles. It really depends on them and what they think they can do and what they want to do. And, you know, or of course, Juno got Juno and I will get to meet those guys and have some camaraderie and some fun along the way. And so that was kind of the impetus of the trip, and it's changed, it's morphed a little bit. Initially, I was actually going to do Australia, but getting Juno into Australia is a challenge, and so it's one that's going to require a little more planning than I initially thought. And so I just shifted to Europe while I finish out the planning for Juno, and then we'll our next trip will be to go to Australia.

Tom Butler 12:07

That's so cool. I just love the whole thing that you're putting together there. Now, you're going to be doing this at 61. Am I right about that? Yeah.

Mark Altman 12:17

Yeah.

Tom Butler 12:18

Talk to me about the role that the bicycle plays in your health.

Mark Altman 12:23

Yes,

Cycling As Therapy And Clarity

Mark Altman 12:24

so it's really funny because like most people, probably many of the people who are listening, there was a point at which, maybe even currently, and that's why they're listening, where the bike had kind of faded away just a bit. My wife and I, Julie and I had lived on a sailboat for two and a half years. So, as you can imagine, for that two and a half years in particular, being on a sailboat, having a bike would be kind of difficult to do. Not impossible. Some people manage to do it, but it's a small folding bike. You're not riding very far, obviously. You know, you get off land on the land and you go get groceries or whatever you're doing. So, but riding like you and I think of riding when you're on a sailboat would be very difficult to do. But I realized recently that while I do a lot of work, we have a small little farmstead, for lack of a better word, just about five acres. I came to the realization that that that I am getting a little older as my as my youngest son, who's currently in the army, as he says, uh, time is an undefeated champion. And so and so I I began to take that to heart. And I was like, you know, I I'm semi-retired, and so now's the time to I figured I had another a few more big trips in me. And so I'm gonna do those. And then the good news is I'll continue to ride, obviously, in between. Some of those rides will be with Wounded Warrior going to these veterans' rides and and chatting with veterans and trying to help them be healthy, both, both physically, of course. I mean, that's that that's a part of it. But I don't know about for you, but for me, just being on a bike and having my brain to myself for the most part, and just being able to think about things and you know, good and bad, because obviously on the trip, uh, on whatever ride you're on, you see something that reminds you of something cool or whatever, and or it allows you to process emotions that you hadn't had a chance to process yet. And one of the things that I've found, especially on these big trips, when you do a big effort, or I guess even if you just did a big effort for one day, right? Like if you wrote a century in a day or something, becoming more honest with yourself is easier the more tired you are.

Tom Butler 15:04

Right.

Mark Altman 15:05

You know, you just don't have the energy to hide from yourself, you know? And so I've I have found, at least for me, that that that helps a lot. And here's the funny part. The reason there, you know, there are people who hike the Appalachian Trail or they do the Pacific Coastal Trail or something, right? Or they or they backpack across Europe. And that's great. But what I have found is that the bike, whether it's a trike or a bike or whatever, you travel fast enough to make reasonable headway in a day, right? But slow enough that you're actually able to see a lot of cool things in a personal way. You know, if you're driving or in a train or something, you you see it perhaps, but you don't you're not stopping, you're not, you know, uh going up to it. But the important part is you're not meeting people. You know, when you're on a bike with your 10-year-old son, or you're on a bike with your family, or you're on a bike with a 132-pound dog in a trailer behind you, as you might imagine, you meet people, whether you whether you wanted to or not. I mean, people are like, what the hell is that? You know, and so and so anyway, it's a cool way to meet folks that you would have never met before, and you get to meet them in a really cool way. Uh it really you become friends much faster, for example, right? Because they're fascinated at what you're doing, and and you get to tell them about it. You get to hopefully you get to inspire them, which is part of why I'm so grateful to be on on your your podcast, because I hope that what I'm doing will inspire other people to do something similar. Whether it's and and I mean you know, it doesn't have to be huge, but yeah.

Tom Butler 17:03

I mean, I think no doubt. I mean, I know absolutely beyond a doubt that this is a trip that will inspire so many people and in the right way, I think, you know, in the ways you've laid out. And I love what you're talking about here. And I I think of life at the speed of the bicycle, and I think there's something special about it.

Mark Altman 17:24

And by the way, one thing I want to say to everybody, you can't really tell because I'm not standing up at the moment and that kind of thing, but you know, like a lot of guys who and I maybe I shouldn't just say guys, but you and I are talking, and so, you know, but like a lot of people who are our age and our place in life and all that, you know, you either were or still are working hard at a job. You are a spouse, perhaps, you perhaps have children and now grandchildren. And so there are all these obligations, right, on your time and on your energy and on your thought, you know. And so it's tough, it's tough to then stay in shape on top of that, right? It's not always easy in a in a time sense to get on the bike or to go for a jog or you know, whatever, right? And so I just want everybody to understand I'm carrying more weight than I need to right now. I'm at I'm at 250. I mean, I'm a pretty big guy normally, but the point is I'm not in some crazy shape. I mean, you're in a hell of a lot better shape than I am. I can look at you and tell that. So, you know, you don't have to be in crazy good shape, even to do one of these big adventures, because what you can do if you if you don't care about the time it takes, right? You don't have a hard deadline at the end, you can just start out slow, right? You start out, you ride, let's say that really you're hoping to average 50 miles a day, right? Well, if you average 30 miles a day for the first three weeks, so what? You're gonna get in riding shape really quickly, and by the time a month has passed, you're gonna be riding really as many miles a day as you want to ride, right? Whether and and and if you said, okay, well, now I gotta I gotta make up those miles that I was gonna, you can do it easy. Uh you you really do get in shape again very quickly, right? And I mean riding shape, you know, you don't have to ride fast. You know, in my case, I'm on a trike and it's going to have a slump drive, so I can gear down really low, and I'll be able to climb hills real slow if I have to. On a trike, you don't have to worry about falling over or anything, you know. So if I get too tired, I just apply the brakes, sit there and catch my breath, and take off again, you know. So, anyway, I just want to encourage everybody in the in the spirit of inspiration, don't put it off. Don't think, oh, I better train up for six months and blah, blah, blah. And and you can do that if you have the time. That probably is a smarter way to do it. But at the same time, if if your window is limited, just go not to steal Nike's thunder here, but just go do it, right? I mean, it really, really just go make it happen. You're gonna have so much fun, it's gonna be so rewarding, and it really can change you in the end.

Tom Butler 20:40

Well, I think that is just so well said, and I'm so glad that you said it. And also, I'd really be interested in having you track kind of that progression as you start out and what you see after a couple days, after a week, after you know, three weeks, and just that exact progression that you're talking about, that if you stick with it, you know, you'll see results.

Start Before You Feel Ready

Mark Altman 21:06

So here's the beautiful thing. So listen, I don't care if you decide you're gonna start biking around your little hometown, or if you decide you're gonna ride across Europe, right? Doesn't matter. If you're really getting back into the bike and you're and you're trying to really kind of put some effort into it and all of that, my guess is at least for your legs, it's gonna suck for the first week or so that you're doing it, right? I mean, no, no need to sugarcoat it. No go into it knowing my legs are gonna, I'm gonna walk around like a little old guy for a few days because my legs are toast, right? But the fact of the matter is, very quickly after that initial little suffer fest, you're gonna feel just amazing. Well, in fact, after every ride, I don't know about you, but for me, after every ride, even if my legs are toast, uh I have a little extra pep in my step, and I'm like, hey, I feel pretty darn good. But I'm talking about the soreness that you normal soreness and whatever, right? So yeah, sure. For the first week or whatever it is, it's a bit of a suffer fest. And in fact, if you're not on a trike like I am, if you're just on a regular bicycle, and in particular, if your saddle is not well fit to you, but even if it is, you naughty bits of that area is gonna feel uh feel it too, right? Right. And again, there's no way around saying it. It's what it is, right? Part of cost of admission. But again, like look, I told you, Little Mark and I rode mountain bikes across Europe, right? When we did our trip, what we found is for the first two weeks, well, for the first two days, three days, it didn't matter. But then for the next two weeks, we were pretty sore down there. But then that soreness went away for two months or more. And it was only in the last week or so of that trip that we started to feel some soreness again, but then we flew home. So I don't know what I don't know if we would have like caught a second wind kind of thing about sitting in a saddle, but I will say that's why I went from a mountain bike. It's one

Why A Trike Can Be Safer

Mark Altman 23:25

of the reasons that I went from a mountain bike to a whiz wheel trike was because and and now if you if you're somebody over 60 listening to the podcast and you have grandchildren and you think, wow, it'd be kind of cool to ride with my grandchildren. One of the things to think about if they don't, like if you're having to help them get a bike or something, one of the things that I found is trikes are so much safer than a bicycle. Because, at least in America, because and and I my guess is even, I'll let you know, but I my guess is even in Europe too. But in in America, as you well know, everybody listening, heck, if you've ridden a bike around your block of your local neighborhood, people see a bike, and and the best they do is avoid you a little bit, you know. Very often they crowd you, sometimes they crowd you on purpose. But what I've found is even the most redneck bike-attacking person there is, and I have heard them say this, the windows will be down and whatnot, you know, and they'll drive by and they'll be like, Marge, what the hell is that thing? As they dodge you because they look at the trike and they're like, What is I've never seen a bike like that before. And so far from being aggressive or ugly or whatever, they they'll sometimes ride next to you for a minute and go, Hey, what is that thing? and whatever. They're almost always friendly, and they almost always give you way more room than you need, and it's all because the trike looks different than a bike. So I offer that up to people who, in particular, if they're getting a new bike or a new trike or whatever, keep that in mind because as you approach our age, even if your balance is great right now and you can still ride like you did when you were much younger, again, time is an undefeated champion. And if you find for one reason or another that your balance begins to get a little dodgy, well, now being on a trike is awesome, right? You're not having a balance at all. As long as you can steer and pedal, you know, you're gonna be plenty fine. And so you end up ultimately spending less money, less aggravation, you feel comfortable, you feel safer on a trike over a bike. And I'm not I I believe every word of what I'm telling you. I'm not saying this because a trike company is my one of my partners. I I truly would not have stuck my children on something that I didn't truly believe in. And in fact, because little Mark and I rode a mountain bike across Europe, that was a big chunk of why we did not ride regular bicycles in the States. My youngest kids were 11 at the time, the twins were 11 at the time. And so it wasn't like they'd had a decade of experience riding in and around traffic and whatnot. And so I really wanted to stack the deck on their safety and helping them be successful. So, anyway, I just offer that up to everybody that as you're thinking about your next bike or trike purchase, that that is maybe something to take into account. And they're so comfortable.

Tom Butler 27:11

I just think it's a great perspective. I'm so glad you went through that because it's important, you know. And I I for me, a trike is an important tool, especially as we try to get people out later on in life who are totally inactive. It's a it's a very important tool. Now, this trip, you're taking a very special partner with you that you've mentioned, Juno. Tell us

Juno’s Story And Trailer Logistics

Tom Butler 27:35

more about Juno.

Mark Altman 27:36

Yeah, so Juno is an African Borble. Not many people will have heard of that breed. She's in the Mastiff breed, Mastiff family. She is the best. She loves children, she loves older people, she is so sweet and friendly to everybody. And in fact, when I was when she was being trained to be my service dog, the biggest challenge was to get her to stay focused and not want everybody that around her to love on her, right? And so, even though she's big and all of that, and some people get scared of big dogs and whatever, she just is a sweetheart. Now, oddly enough, that particular breed is known for turning it on and turning it off as appropriate. When she was only seven months old, I had three men try to rob me in Louisiana. And I assure you, Juno will do whatever Juno has to do to protect me. But the funny part is she had been playing with, I had broken down in Louisiana, and a mechanic was helping me fix my truck. And he had a kindergarten little daughter who was about that big. She was the tiniest little thing you've ever seen. And she had Juno's lead, and the two of them were rolling in the grass about five or six feet away from us, and Juno's licking on her, and she's giggling, and everybody's having a big time. He loads her in the truck, his truck, and drives away after we got mine fixed. He drives away. He didn't hit the end of the parking lot, and these three men approached me, not knowing I had Juno, and they, it was plainly evident they were going to rob me. I mean, I've been in combat three times and I've been all over the world and I know the story. They were going to try to rob me. And so I had Juno's lead, and I walked around the front of the truck toward them. And as soon as she saw them, they didn't, they literally didn't say a word, but she knew, based on their body language and the pheromones they were giving off and all of that, that they were bad news. And she let them know, I'm going to snatch one of your souls. And and they literally ran, they they they fell over each other like the Keystone cops, and then got up and ran away. And we we hopped in my truck, drove across the parking lot to a little hotel, and the lady behind the desk came running around the counter and says, Oh my gosh, she's beautiful. And she falls on her knees in front of Juno, who just ran off three robbers literally a minute and a half ago. And all I could think as this lady was falling to her knees is, Oh my God, Juno's gonna eat this woman. And I will have you know, Juno licked on her and loved on her like she had known her for 20 years. Juno turnt had it, was as gentle as she could be with that little girl, was absolutely a soul stealer for 30 seconds, and went back to being as sweet as she could be all in three minutes. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen by any dog. I love it. And so, yeah, and so she really helps me. I mean, she really, really has helped me with my PTSD. Uh, I like to tell people, I'll feed Juno ice cream off my spoon, and then I'll and then I'll eat another bit of ice cream off my spoon. And it spins my wife up. And I'm like, hey, listen, you save my life, you get to eat off my spoon. That's just the rules. I don't make the rules, that's just the rules. I don't know what to tell you.

Tom Butler 31:38

And so do you do you feel like she likes the bike rides?

Mark Altman 31:44

So here's the funny part. I actually am going up. I mentioned that TerraTrike was wheel as one of our corporate partners. I'm actually going to pick up the trike next week. And the odd part is the in fact, if anybody listening has a suggestion, I am all ears. The long pole in the tent right now is getting a trailer that Juno can ride in. No one in the world that I can that I can find and I've looked makes a trailer big enough for Juno, except a company called I do A-I-D-O-O. I don't know really how you pronounce it, but that's my guess. They're the only company that makes one. And they don't ship to the United States, they they only ship to Europe. So Juno actually hasn't been in a trailer yet. Because again, they don't make one big enough for her. Certainly not to go the distance we're gonna go. So what may end up having to happen is that I will have the trailer shipped to Edinburgh, and Juno and I were gonna look around Edinburgh anyway. You know, we're gonna see the Book of Kells and Edinburgh Castle, you know, just some other touristy stuff in Edinburgh, right? Get over our jet lag, that kind of jazz. And so while we were there, I was gonna, of course, go to the bike shop, get the trailer, assemble it, and then spend a couple of days getting her used to riding in the trailer. She's very well trained, she's a super smart dog. I really don't anticipate having any trouble. I would rather get the trailer here and have a week or two to practice with her before I go to Europe. But if I have to do it the other way, it won't be the end of the world. Again, she is the best dog ever, super, super smart, very well trained. She trusts me, I trust her, so I'm not I'm not terribly worried about it. But yeah, you're right. If I if I could make it work with it, I would, uh, where we tried first. But as long as I let her, yeah.

When The Hard Parts Become Memories

Tom Butler 34:17

I mean, to me, I when I talk to people about trips like this, there's people that like the adventure of it, you know, like in this case, there's gonna be a bit of trying things out, seeing what works, and that's just part of the process.

Mark Altman 34:35

Yeah, you know, it's funny you say that because one of the things that I've learned is sometimes the very challenge you have on a trip, the thing that in the moment just about spins you out of control. You you miss a ferry ride, or you have bad weather on the wrong day, or the thing you wanted to see on the trip is closed the day you're there, or whatever, right? Or you have 13 flats in one day, like I did one time. It's so funny because in the moment, you're at least for me, I'm very human. By the time the third flat had rolled around, I was pretty over it, and I was pissed by the fifth flat, right? By the 13th flat, I'm just laughing about it. I'm like, whatever. I, you know, at this point, you you either laugh or you cry, I guess. And you know, laughing's more fun. So so anyway, but what you find is that the delays that you were caused by flat number two through 13 is actually why you end up meeting somebody cool because you wouldn't have met them, or or somebody says, hey, because the thing is closed, why don't you go to this thing instead? And that second thing is the thing that that was so amazing to see, right? And so it really does these big trips in particular, but but my guess any any bikepacking trip more than a couple days long really provides this perspective and this uh chance to see yourself in a different way, and that's to me the challenge is where all the growth happens.

History At The Speed Of Cycling

Tom Butler 36:32

I love it, you know. Yeah. Now, your route is going through some really cool places with a lot of history. I'm wondering if that's part of it for you. Are you interested in those historical places?

Mark Altman 36:45

Yeah, so as it turns out my undergraduate degree and part of my master's degree actually is in history. And so, and I'll tell you, man, for any of your listeners who are not into history, or maybe the maybe one of the couple is into history and the and the other one's not. One of the things that I have found amazing, for example, when my family rode across the U.S., we got to go inside Ford Theater where Lincoln was shot. And since his and the anniversary of his death was just two days ago, probably appropriate to share this. So we got to go inside Ford Theater. And I noticed that the presidential box was up to the, if you're looking at the stage, it's up to the right. And so we end up tracking down the lady who was in charge of both Ford Theater and the Peterson house, right across the street where Lincoln passed, actually passed away. And we get to chatting to her, and I and I asked her, I'm something of a Lincolnophile, and I ended up telling a story in the Peterson house about the bed that Lincoln died in. She ended up getting the keys to that room, and we checked under the bed to see if the story I had heard was true. And so, anyway, we had 150 people probably packed in the Peterson house, and I had to tell that story three times so everybody could hear it. Well, when that happened, she was like, Man, that was so cool, and everybody had so much fun. She's like, and by now we had told everybody there, you know, why we were all in bicycling clothes, you know, bike shorts and shirts and whatever. And she says, Hey, while you're in town, if I can do anything for you, please let me know. And I was like, actually, if you could allow me in the presidential box, I would be grateful. Because what not many people know is that Major Rathbone was dating Clara Harris, who was Mrs. Lincoln's niece. So they had gone on a double date. Robert Lincoln, the oldest son, he had he had passed. So at late at last minute, they grabbed Clara Harris and Rathbone. Well, of course, when Booth enters into the presidential box, they when he enters in, Rathbone realizes when the first shot's fired, when the shot is fired, Rathbone realizes that Booth, who by the way was like Tom Hanks. So imagine if Tom Hanks or George Clooney or somebody went up to the president of the United States and shot him. Think of how shocked everyone would be, right? So that's what's just happened, basically. Well, Rathbone jumps up and tries to charge Booth. Booth tries to fire at Rathbone, and the pistol misfires, and he draws his buoy knife and he slashes Rathbone across the arm. Well, and of course, we all know the rest of the story. Booth gets away, eventually is killed in the barn, you know, what, five days later. Well, anyway, Rathbone and Clara Harris actually get married, and he is sent as a to the to Germany as an attache, where sadly, Rathbone ends up killing Clara Harris, and he is committed to a German insane asylum for the rest of his life. And it was because, largely because, of his guilt over not saving Lincoln. Now, I knew this story, right? And I, as a military man, I wanted to look at the ground myself to determine was Rathbone culpable? Was he not paying attention enough? Was he, did he somehow, could he have prevented this? And so I explained that to the lady who ran Ford Theater. And she said, Mark, that's fascinating. And I want to know the answer. She says, but I don't think you know what you're asking. She said, Senators cannot go in the presidential booth. She says, no one goes in there except they clean it every, I don't know how long, ever how what interval. She said, that's it. No one goes in there. And I said, Well, I appreciate it. I just thought maybe, and she says, but but I'm gonna try to get permission for you to go in there. So we go back the next day, and sure enough, she says, Your kids can't go in, your wife can't go in, only you, but you can spend all the time you want. And I actually stood literally in the spot that Booth stood in when he shot Lincoln. And I literally in 1865 could have reached out and put my hand on Lincoln's shoulder. That's where I was standing. Now I tell all of that to say for people who are thinking about cycling, believe it or not, the cycling to somewhere like that very often is what gets you in. Because when people find out you didn't drive up or fly up or whatever, you bicycled up, sometimes from a hundred miles or more away. They're so intrigued and they realize your commitment that they're very happy to let you do things that most people don't get to do. And so I just say that not as a way of gaming the system. I don't mean that. I just mean that it can turn into something really, really special. Right? I will remember that for the rest of my life of getting to stand where Booth stood and understanding truly what happened when Lincoln was assassinated.

Tom Butler 43:21

Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Mark Altman 43:22

Yes, yeah. So I'm sorry to have droned on there, but I just my only point is, right, that I just want everybody to know that sometimes these big efforts like this of whether it's a even if it's a 300-mile trip over a long weekend or something or whatever, the you know, whatever it is, sometimes that leads to really, really cool things.

Tom Butler 43:45

It's a great illustration of you know, that's special. You know, like you say, when people see you riding, when people find out, you know, you rode a thousand miles or whatever it is to get to a spot. I mean, it it they notice that and that and And it's fun. Now, you've done long distance trips before. You kind of know the what's required, but is this your first trip with a dog as a companion? And and what what have you thought about logistically the difference that makes?

Mark Altman 44:18

Yeah, so it is my first big trip with a dog, or any other animal, I guess, for that matter. Yeah, and so the differences are obviously I have to pay attention to her food, her water needs, you know, her potty needs, you know, all of those things, right? So there's some logistical stuff. And and what's actually kind of cool about it is it's a new opportunity for me to learn again. Because if just you and I were gonna go on this trip, right? Let's say you and I had known each other or we connected somehow, and you were like, hey, this sounds like a cool trip. Can I go with you? And yep, of course, grab your stuff, let's go, right? Well, I probably don't have to worry about your potty needs or your food needs. If I'm gonna eat, you're probably gonna eat, and vice versa. You can tell me, hey, Mark, I'm hungry, let's stop and get a hot dog or whatever it is, right? But for a dog, it's all of that's different, you know? And so just how different? We'll wait and see. The good news is when I eat, Juno eats. So if I stop and get a bratwurst in Germany, be rest assured, Juno will have her own bratwurst, right? And I and I do that for a variety of reasons. As the every every time I eat, I feed her with my own hand something as well. And so we'll see. The biggest thing is gonna be this is the first trip I've done alone, right? First trip was with Little Mark, second trip was the whole family. So this is the first trip where where I will be, at least as a person, I will be alone. And the only reason I, the biggest reason I feel safe doing this trip the way I'm doing it, is because I will have Juno. Right? If someone tries to steal something from me in the middle of the night, or God forbid they were to try to hurt me or something, you know, Juno's gonna sleep in the tent with me, right next to me. Very often she sleeps in bed with me and all that. And so obviously, unless someone's been casing us and they know I have Juno, they're gonna be in for a rude awakening if they try to do anything to us, you know. And so, yeah, I'm pretty excited about that part. The one challenge, it's a little bit different, is Europeans view service dogs a bit differently than we do. There's a couple of additional hoops you have to jump through and that kind of thing. And even then, like here in the States, when I take my service dog to a restaurant, they cannot turn us away, they cannot legally turn us away. Right? The ADA says, nope, if she's a service dog and you need a service dog, then you're good, right? It's against the law to turn them away. In Europe, it's not always that way. And so we have to, and by the way, I'm pretty good anyway, even in the States about working with people. Gino and I don't go places that we're truly not welcome. You know, if if sometimes they have a concern, I'm happy to talk about the concern and figure it out. But if at the end of the day they say no, you're not welcome, okay. We'll we'll go down the road somewhere else, you know. And so we'll see. I that'll be a question. You know, I hope we get to do this again either a couple times as we do the trip or after the trip. And we'll have to keep that question in mind again to see just how different was it and in what ways it was different.

Tom Butler 48:13

I'm thrilled uh to have that conversation. That'd be really fun.

Virtual Soldier Ride And Fundraising

Tom Butler 48:18

Talk about the virtual soldier ride.

Mark Altman 48:22

Yeah, so this has been really cool. We were trying to figure out, so we were trying to figure out a way to get these this discussion about veterans' challenges and how service dogs can help. We were trying to figure out a way to broadcast that to a broader audience. And so I actually had worked with Wounded Warrior once. I was a dive master on a scuba dive trip where they were taking wounded warriors out scuba diving. And so they needed a couple volunteer dive masters. And so, since I'm a dive master in scuba, I volunteered and we we took these veterans out. Well, because of that, and because of the positive experience I'd had, I reached out to Wounded Warrior and said, Hey, here's what I'm doing. Would you guys like to join with me in this process? Well, they it just so happened they had just begun to kick off the virtual soldier ride. And, you know, obviously, sometimes when you do a big benefit bike ride, everybody shows up at a place and they have some safeties and they have maps and orange slices and you know, whatever they got, right? And everybody rides in a big group. Well, but and that's great. You get a lot of camaraderie, you can get a lot of media attention sometimes for those things, and you know, so a lot of positive things come about right from it. The downside is everybody has to, it has to fit in everybody's schedule, right? And everybody has to be on at least some level of the same fitness level, right? To be able to, if you're gonna do it together. So in this case, the virtual soldier ride is an opportunity to cycle on your own terms, whenever and and however is best for you. And you guys can everybody can ride solo like I'm doing it, well, like I'm kind of doing. You know, we're kind of riding solo, but once we're in Europe, we won't be. We'll have some other folks with us, or you can ride as a team. So your local bike club could get together, do a virtual soldier ride, and have a fundraiser right at just attached to it. And in fact, if if everybody goes to Juno's Odyssey on Facebook, you'll see our Facebook page there, and they can donate right from there, right? And so that that really is how we're generating visibility and and some money for wounded warrior. And that money, every every dollar donated goes to ensure that that our veterans and warriors have access to mental health care, career counseling, long-term rehabilitation, and of course the camaraderie of being with other veterans doing activities like scuba diving, or or in fact, they also hold their own bicycle rides, these wounded warrior bike rides. And some of the war some of the wounded guys are on hand crank bicycles, right? Some of them are on regular bikes, some are on trikes, some are on recumbents. Just they meet them where they are with whatever kind of cycling vehicle or tool they need to be able to ride like ever, you know, like they could back before they had been injured, you know. So it's just really cool. It's been a great, they've been a great facilitator of the trip. And I can't speak highly enough about Wounded Warrior. They're a great organization, and I've seen a lot of the positive things they do for myself and for other veterans for that matter.

Tom Butler 52:27

If you met a veteran that that confided in you that they were struggling, that they were, you know, even mentally, that they had become sedentary, that the you know, maybe uh the change of routine has been tough for them. What would you talk, what would you tell them about cycling? Do you feel like it's a unique tool in that situation?

Mark Altman 52:50

Yeah, I really do. And and so I don't know how many of our listeners have at one point been runners or joggers or whatever. But I have always been in the in the, you know, in the army we run a lot, right? But I have always been a better road marcher or think think backpacker hiker type than I have ever been runner. And one of the reasons is because when I run, it feels like somebody's hitting me on top of the head. I don't run very smoothly and I bounce bang, bang, you know, and I just and so that's one of the things that I so I don't get to think when I run, right? First of all, I'm the only thing I'm thinking about is how bad it sucks to run. That's really what I'm thinking about. But with cycling, it's different for me. I can allow my brain to go other places, whether it's you know, a positive, you know, kind of kind of day wistful daydreaming kind of thing, or it allows me to think about something serious, everything from a work challenge to a you know, a relationship challenge that I'm having, or my own mental health, or you know, that kind of thing, right? It allows me to think in a way that running doesn't do for me. I used to competitively swim in high school and college. Even swimming, I don't really get to think the way I do cycling. I can't think of another activity or sport where I can think the way I can cycling. Something about the rhythm of the pedals, probably, something about the fact that I'm traveling fast enough, but not traveling so fast like in a car, where if you get too deep in your own thoughts while you're driving, well, obviously that goes badly, right? So, but on a on a trike or a bike, I can just ride and think. I can talk to someone else who's riding next to me, you know. I mean, as long as we're not slogging up some kind of crazy hill, I can talk to somebody next to me. And so it just offers to me so many advantages over any other sport I can think of. I mean, maybe if we sat here a while, you would come up with something that might be comparable, but I don't know what it would be. So yeah, I the other thing is, you know, and maybe, maybe my corporate partner here is not gonna like this, but you can you can go onto Facebook Marketplace and you can find a used bike. If you were just gonna say, you know, I don't know if I'll even use a darn thing, but I'm willing to spend a few hundred bucks to go out and get a used bike on Facebook Marketplace, right? Well, whether it's a mountain bike, road bike, some kind of gravel bike or crossover bike of some kind, you know, for a few hundred bucks, in most places you can find yourself four or five examples on any given day of something that would work for you. And then you can ride it and see, you know, after a few times, just what it does for you, right? Hopefully you can even reach out to a local cycling group, or I'm sure that on your webpage and others you you have resources for people to reach out in that kind of way. You can reach out to other veterans who ride. And so it just really is super helpful, I think. You feel better physically, like you do with any workout, but you're not pounding the crap out of yourself like you do in running or some other. It's a low impact or virtually no impact exercise. You can do it as cardio, you can do it as just long-term endurance, you can do it almost like if you're lifting weights, if you're really mashing the gears. I mean, there's just so many ways that you can tailor the experience to what you need in the moment, that it does it in unlike anything I know of.

How To Follow Along And Ask Questions

Tom Butler 57:10

So, how do people stay connected to this? Are you you talked about the Facebook page? Is that going to be the the main way that you kind of follow the right?

Mark Altman 57:23

Yes, so we're on we're currently on Facebook, we're currently on Instagram, we're currently on TikTok. There's a web page that's going up. So any of those ways, and in fact, it on each of those models, if you just go to, like, for example, if you go to Facebook, you would just search Juno's Odyssey, J-U-N-O Apostrophe S Odyssey, and you'll be able to find us from there very easily. You can everything from donate to wounded warriors from there to just following us to make comments, you know, that kind of thing. Now, I will say this because I go pick up the trike next week, and I have another sponsor partner stop to make along the way. We have purposely ramped up the social media effort kind of slowly, right? We I wanted to, I didn't want to ramp it up and then have a fall off of content for people to watch. And so I knew that once I got the trike, I'd be able to have an unboxing and kind of tell people about the trike and why we have some upgrades and some differences in my trike than a normal trike. And I want to point those out to people because again, if somebody was getting into this or buying a trike, particularly to do a big ride, whether it's in the US or somewhere else, I want to point out some things for them to think about and why I made the decisions I made. Not that they should copy all of them, merely just for them to say, okay, I hear what Mark's saying there, but I don't want it to do that or need it to do that thing. I want to do this other thing instead. Hey, that's awesome. Just wanted to put it out there so you made a good choice for yourself, right? And so, so yeah, they will begin. There's already some stuff out there now, and certainly they can reach out to us and ask any questions or any of that that they would like. I'm very happy to answer questions individually. Or if you ask a particularly good question, don't be surprised if I take that and then, you know, I mean, I won't I won't use people's names probably, but but just I'll make it public because if you had the question, hey Mark, why did you use these panures instead of these panures? Well, there's gonna be a lot of people maybe that want to know that, so I'll I'll put it out there, right? So for everybody to see.

Tom Butler 1:00:07

Yeah, that's awesome. Mark, I'm so glad that you reached out to me. I'm just so glad to have this conversation. I've enjoyed it so much and you know, so invested in this trip now, you know. I do look forward to having you you back and talk about it some more. Um, so thanks for taking the time to join me.

Mark Altman 1:00:27

No, of course, it's absolutely been my pleasure. And again, I want to I want to encourage everybody to go to Juno's Odyssey and to, and again, whether you're a very, very beginning cyclist or you're somebody who is very experienced with cycling, but you haven't ever done a large effort trip like this, and you want to, I am happy to share with you gear lists, thoughts about how to pick a route, because now there's some tools out there that we didn't have when we did the US trip or Mark mine and Mark's Europe trip. So there's some tools available now that we didn't have back in the day. And in fact, maybe that's something to close with. There has never been a better time, in my view, to be a cyclist, right? Because we have so many cool tools, whether it's monitoring your workout and the speed you're going and all of that, to tracking that over time, to setting up a route where you either have a lot of hills because that's what you wanted, or to have no hills if that's what you need, right? All of that and many, many more tools are available in a way that weren't back when we were cycling in our 20s, you know? Yeah, that's awesome. So, yeah, so it's just such a cool time. And I think there's more awareness of people about cyclists on the road and things like that, even though it's not perfect yet, and I don't mean to say it is, but just merely I think it's at least on people's radar and thought process in a way that it wasn't 40 years ago. And so, again, I'm happy to help anybody who might want it and I'm and answer questions and all that. And I really do hope that people will get out there and start cycling. It really is the best.

Tom Butler 1:02:19

Fantastic. Well, again, thanks, and uh we will talk again sometime, I'm sure.

Mark Altman 1:02:25

Good. I hope so. All right, see you soon. Yep. Bye.

Tom Butler 1:02:37

One

Key Takeaways And Gear Change Mindset

Tom Butler 1:02:38

thing that Mark said seems important for anyone looking to do a long bike trip. He is about to ride 3,000 miles, and he flat out told us that he's at 250 pounds right now, carrying more weight than he wants to, and that he's not in great shape. But he said, Look, if you don't have a hard deadline, you can just start. Ride thirty miles a day when you're aiming for fifty. Within a few weeks your body catches up. I can get stuck on the idea that I have to get into fantastic shape before I would start something like that. That I'd have to lose weight first, that I'd have to be ready first. And Mark is basically saying no, the bike gets you in shape. You don't have to be in shape to get on the bike. And that's a great point. And if a guy at 250 pounds can plan a 3,000 mile ride across Europe, then a lot of things I tell myself I need first, well, maybe I don't. Second thing I want to flag is what Mark said about the trike. And I want to be careful here because I don't want anybody here trike and think, well, that's for someone older than me. That's for someone after they've given up. Mark made a different case. He talked about balance and how balance changes as we age, whether you want it to or not. He talked about how drivers actually give a trike more room than a bicycle. Because the bike is unfamiliar enough that they slow down and look instead of crowding past. And he talked about how a trike, if you get tired, you just stop. You don't have to clip out, you don't have to worry about balance, you just sit there and breathe, and then go again. There's an article in Bicycle Magazine about cyclists in their eighties. They use the term super agers. One of them, a guy named Spence Halper, is 89 and still riding. And he said that when he feels unsafe on his bike, he'll move to a recumbent three-wheeler because he wants to stay outside, and he wants to stay on the trail. Mark is making the case for not waiting until balance fails to think about it. The trike isn't the thing you ride when you can't ride anymore. It's a tool that lets you keep riding for maybe another twenty years. I'm not looking to transition to a trike right now, but at some point I envision doing that, because I want to keep moving at the pace of cycling, outside, enjoying open spaces. I'm feeling the draw of so many places that I want to ride this summer. I'm truly excited to explore some new things on the bike. And I hope you have something special planned this year as well. And remember, age is just a gear change.